Art ratings?

[leelastarsky]

A question - particularly for my fellow artists, but I'm interested to hear everybody's opinion.

The ratings that are gernerally ascribed to fanfiction - G through to NC17 - do you think the same standards should apply to art? Or should they be higher because it is a visual medium?

I ask because the picture in my icon - the full version of which you can see here - Passionate Ron/Hermione, was just labelled NC17 in a forum and, I'm sorry, but I would never have classed that pic NC17. Yes, it's suggestive, but that's it. There is no cock to be seen, no sexual act in progress, not even a breast.

Personally, I'd have rated it M (15+), just to be on the safe side. Am I too liberal? I mean, my kids have all seen this, and they range in age from 15 down to just-turned-9. They weren't horrified or traumatised by it. And, to counterpoint, none of them have seen the 'quickie' slash drawing I did for shocolate the other day, because I know that would squick them, and that one I do regard as NC17.

So what's the consensus? Would you rate this painting NC17?

And, out of interest, what would you rate this one while we're at it?

Comments

[texasmagic.livejournal.com]

Hi, Leela, Long time lurker (for you)& CM Council Member.

Yeah, I can see how you would be surprised by the rating for what a lot of us call the "Bodice Ripper" (a fav of mine, btw)

Basically, Kelly is right. All the forums have been dealing with having to take a good hard look at how we house 'adult' content. What we learned in our research for CM, is that the rules in the US state that general access forums have to be suitable for 13years old. The trouble lies in the fact that the rules differ from country to country, and since CM has a multinational set of mods, we have to take a 'most restrictive' stance to protect ourselves.

Still, it's art, and therefore subjective. I hate having to quanitify and objectify the piece to begin with.

[leelastarsky.livejournal.com]

Thanks texasmagic. I have no problems at all with Checkmated deciding what should be classed as Restricted; it's your/their website, not mine, and I'm more than happy to abide by the rules. It's just that I was under the impression that everything in the Restricted section or Bedchamber was NC17. I know I have read fics there that have described ejaculation and oral sex that were rated R rather than NC17 and not in the Bedchamber. So you'll understand my surprise at, I thought, having my painting declared NC17. And wondering whether there were different rules for art and fic.

As you said, the pic is a 'bodice ripper'. That was the challenge it was drawn for - to emulate the Mills&Boon style covers. Books (and bodic-ripper cover illustrations) which are available eveywhere (at child height in the shops here!).

[texasmagic.livejournal.com]

Hee. Yes, you probably did read some very explicit R rated stories at CM. We've had to move a few stories to the BC recently because they began to cross the line in later chapters, and a few were very popular stories that caused quite a stir.

I wish we had an M rating in the US, because while I'm not sure I'd call that beautiful pic an R, it's definitely not suitable for 13 year olds.

We do have quite a set of contradictions, don't we? We'll put "Bodice Ripper" cover art on the grocery store shelves, and yet we argue that it's inappropriate to nurse a baby in public. GRRRR.

Alas, the laws for the interent are vague and inconsistent.

But most of all, I'm glad you share your work with us. It's truly beautiful.

[aquarius-1977.livejournal.com]

Well, if we were applying US rating standards to this, I'd have to go with an R, too. It's definitely too strong by most people's standards to be PG-13 (which is defined "some material inappropriate for children under 13" which usually includes things like coarse language and mild violence). This doesn't mean that I personally agree with the system or would view your work that way, but the first picture I think would cross the line out of PG-13 and into an R because her shirt is a bit translucent and there is a definite suggestion of sexuality.

The one with the baby I'd say would be about a PG-13 because is frontal nudity but not in a sexual context. For my personal view I wouldn't even have that strong of a reaction to it because breastfeeding is a practice as old as humanity itself and a perfetly natural thing to do, but the US ratings system would feel differently because not all parents would want to have to deal with explaining breasts, breast feeding, and sexuality to their children after a movie.

Ratings are a slippery slope. Personally, I'm all for them, when they're used strictly to give the audience a heads-up about the type of material they're going to see when they view a story/picture/movie, NOT WHEN THEY'RE USED TO PASS A MORAL JUDGEMENT ON SOMEONE'S WORK. Unfortunately a system designed to do the former has somehow evolved to do the latter.

I remember this past winter I went to go see "Closer" with my coworker Lisa. There were two elderly ladies sitting in front of us, and at first I thought "What the hell...??" but I tried to stay open minded, reminding myself that senior citizen does not equal "prude." Well sure enough, the movie was over and they were shocked by quite a bit of the film's content, and *I* was stunned, because all I could think was "You knew this was rated R, right?" The rating taken with the description of the story should've told them that maybe this wasn't the movie for them.

I definitely don't consider myself an "uptight American" when it comes to sexuality, but I do believe in being allowed to make an informed decision before I look at something. Ratings should be tools, not a pronouncement of something's value.

[aquarius-1977.livejournal.com]

...and by "perfetly natural" I mean "perfectly natural."

[distelhad.livejournal.com]

Soo...first thnigs first!


Hmm...the "Passion" Ron/Hermione pic (you what I mean)... I think R is just fine for it!!! I mean, you see nearly nothing...just passion and love I mean...I've always wondered how some sites rate their pics.

The 2Quicky" is NC-17 and not becouse it's two guys (likes Harry/Draco *licks lips*) but becouse of what guys "have" :P

Anyway, I for my part would say the pic with the baby...ermm...PG? I mean...oh yes, you see boobs, and so what? I see them everyday walking through the city when some mother is feeding her baby!! This breasts have nothing to do with ...erm...the-making-love-process, they're just something a women must have!

love

distel

btw: I started reading NC-17 when I was 15, now I'm 18, and I don't think I died, went crazy, or whatever...